This month, Alison & Jean pick a favorite insidewink podcast. We begin with Alison’s pick – Scarlett Lewis. Scarlett founded the Choose Love Movement after her son, Jesse, was murdered during the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy in December 2012 which remains as one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history.Upon returning home, Scarlett discovered a message Jesse had written on their kitchen chalkboard that became the catalyst of the movement. It read, “Norturting Helinn Love”. After hours of research and consultation with numerous experts, these words became our call to action and formula for uplifting lives. Scarlett came to realize that if the shooter had received more nurturing in his life, the tragedy might never have happened and the Choose Love Movement was launched.

Learn more at chooselovemovement.org.

Transcript
Alison: What was that? Jean was singing a little. Just those little hums… My mom used to hum. Did your mom ever hum?

Jean: Yeah, my mom totally hummed.

Alison: My mom would be like, mmmmm, mmmmm….I don’t…. Do you hum?

Jean: Sometimes I’ll hum.

Alison: Really?

Jean: Yeah. But my mom used to sing.

Alison: Really?

Jean: If the radio was on, which it usually was in our house, um, she would,.. She would sing along. And my mom has a has a very pretty singing voice.

Alison: Really? Yeah. We didn’t sing. We were Hummers.

Jean: Got it.

Alison: We were Hummers. Today, um, we’re, uh… Oh….What are you doing?

Jean: I’m snapping.

Alison: Yeah. Look. Woo hoo! Okay– and scene! Today, we’re, we’re looking back on some of our favorite interviews. Uh, the last time Jean picked for her is Anita Moorjani. And today…

Jean: Who are you picking?

Alison: Well, it’s very hard because, as you know, there are some people that I loved, but I today I think I’m going to pick Scarlett Lewis because, um, her son was murdered in, um, in, um, a school shooting. And the way she has turned her pain and that deep grief that is, you know, you can’t even fathom that. Right? Um, into the movement called the the Jesse Lewis Choose Love movement, I, I thought, I don’t know, there was something so moving about her to me and her strength and her efforts. And I just want that to be out there again because this… It’s got to stop. And she’s she’s on the path to helping it stop. Yeah. And so I don’t know if you if you any of you heard Scarlett Lewis before and we did it during Covid.

Jean: Right.

Alison: Which was interesting. So we were all on zoom together and, um, but she’s a beautiful light and has hope and desire to really change this dynamic that we find ourselves in.

Jean: Yeah. I love the title of her mission, Choose Love. Yeah. And she and she got that from her son.

Alison: Yeah. And it’s just such a beautiful story in that book. I mean, the whole thing, if you have time and over, you know, it made me just.., it was over the holidays, I think– and, uh, it makes you just realize…

Jean: You can choose a different way to look at something.

Alison: Exactly.. And and empower yourself in a way that can really make a difference.

Jean: So I love, I love that you chose her. Yeah. Great.

Alison: yeah- She was a beautiful interview, so I hope you, um, i hope you get something out of this.

Jean: Yes, I’m going to listen to it again.

Alison: So here’s a here’s Scarlett.

Alison: This didn’t start that day…. This was in you?

Scarlett: Yes. You know, it was interesting. I can look back and I can see the different things that happened in my life to prepare me to be able to respond the way that I did. I obviously didn’t know that those things were happening for that reason, but now I know why they were happening. Yeah.

Alison: Yes, exactly, exactly. Well, thank you for coming. Yeah. We’re just we’ve been talking about you all week, and I feel, um, nervous because, uh, you have Accomplished so much you have really accomplished and are doing so, so much. Do you? Do you see that in yourself?

Scarlett: Well, actually, what I’ve been able to do is catalyze a lot of other people. And so there’s a lot of people that are working on this together and a lot of volunteers. And, and I appreciate that. That’s it’s a movement. And it was a movement on purpose because we all are in this together and we all have to come together, take responsibility to be part of the solution. And we can do it. We can do it. We are doing it.

Alison: Yes, totally, totally agree with you. Um, your book is beautiful. Uh, your book is, your book is amazing and vulnerable. You know, it’s so fast, you can’t put it down. Like, you know, it’s just so vulnerable and beautiful and life affirming.

Scarlett: Thank you. It’s a quick read. All of the proceeds, 100% of the proceeds, go towards the Choose Love movement and help us do what we do.

Alison: That’s fantastic to know. So I want everyone to buy and read the book, and maybe you’ll tell me after we’re done where the best place to do that is. Okay. Yeah. And so thank you for that. It’s really just a beautiful gift to the world. Your book.

Scarlett: Thank you. You know, thank you so much.  I appreciate that I feel like, how could I do anything? But after, you know, what happened to my son Jesse, but also what’s happening to our children in the world that is preventable. And. And every school shooting is 100% preventable. You will not hear very many people say that. In fact, I’ve only ever heard one other person say what I think is pretty obvious. And that was Molly Hudgins, who personally disarmed a student who had come into her school. She’s a school counselor with the intention of doing mass murder. And she had personally disarmed him. But she said that every school shooting is preventable with one word. And of course, I was on the edge of my seat, and I was thinking, wow, somebody’s actually saying what I say. I know the word. I know the word. It’s love. It’s love. And she said, hope. And I thought about that and I thought, wow, yeah, she’s right, she’s right. Because you would never perpetrate such a crime unless you were hopeless. But of course, you need to have love. You need to have experienced love. You need to be loved in order to have hope.

Alison: Yeah, I think there.

Speaker3: Agreed.

Jean: Yeah. So, Scarlett, I just want to have a little background about you. Were you raised with a spiritual foundation? Um. You know, what was your faith like prior to to the tragedy of losing…. Well, that whole event. What were you. How were you moving through your life, prior? Just, you know, did you go to church? Were you just a woman that was such a champion for for love, you know  can you speak to that for a moment?

Scarlett: I was I was initially trying to think of what other people would say about me and kind of chuckling, uh, a champion of love. Um, but yeah, I was raised a traditional Christian. And so we, we did go to church more off than on. But I have a strong faith and I, I built upon that as I grew older and I continue to have a very strong Christian faith. So I do have that. And I think that that did help, um, when Jesse was murdered, I know where he went. I say now, like I with everything that’s happened, um, I don’t believe anymore is what I say, I know. Yeah. Um, so I know where he went, and so I, I do know that I will join him one day. And so that makes my time here, uh, a little easier. I can breathe a little easier. And I know that I have a purpose, and I didn’t know what my purpose was. I believe everybody has a purpose on earth, but I didn’t really know what mine was until this tragedy. And then it became very apparent to me. And so to be able to live your purpose is an incredibly empowering feeling.

Jean: Yeah. You know, I want to say that I admire how you speak of the tragedy that happened. You don’t say, well, Jesse was taken from me. You know, you this there was a serious mass murder. So you don’t sugarcoat the experience. And I love that you meet it with love.

Alison: You know, I remember the first time I was answering a question from a reporter. I was it was very, it was within the first couple of days. So I was at my mom’s house, and she was standing behind me listening to how I was responding to the questions. And I got off the phone and she said, uh, I don’t think you should use the word murder. It’s just so harsh, like…. And I’m like, really, mom, what do you think I should use? Yeah. And she was like, well, I maybe loss maybe. And I’m like, but I didn’t lose him. I didn’t it wasn’t like, oh, I can’t find him. He was murdered. I have to say it how it was. And she’s like, but it just is so painful to hear. And I said, you’re right. It is painful. And I think that’s important. I think we should be in pain when we hear that children are being murdered in their classrooms. And, you know, I was tragically, I say, blessed to have other victims family members to talk about this with early on. And we discussed how, you know, people would try to sugarcoat it and how we didn’t want that. Somebody coming up to you saying, oh, I’m so sorry for your loss. Well, I didn’t lose him. He was murdered. You know, I mean, it was it was something that, uh, at least the Sandy Hook families that I was in touch with were very adamant about. So, um, so that just kind of stuck with me because it’s the truth.

Jean: Yeah.

Alison: Yeah, it’s very, very, very truthful. Um, I, I was so moved by your story about JT and, uh, the Rwandan genocide and how that was so moving to me because it was, um, so clear in that moment that if you help somebody else, somehow it heals your own heart. And, um, I feel a lot of love for JT, and I’m interested to hear how he is doing. And also, um, do you see that? Do you do you agree that if you look outward and really trying to help, it heals? And how how do you operate with that?

Scarlett: Absolutely. I mean, I know that from my own personal experience that everything that I do for others helps me heal as well. It’s not why I’m doing it, but it was an incredible consequence of creating this choose love movement. And everyone loves that story about JT. And I still use his example. You know, we have this powerful formula for choosing love that’s right behind me. And I still use his example in the Compassion in Action, the fourth character value, because he had to step outside of what was going on in his life and his own pain and suffering to help other people. And in doing that, he helped heal himself. And healing is an ongoing process. But but from what I witnessed from him, it’s the most powerful way to heal yourself is by doing for others, and he was a great role model for me because I saw it work with him.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you a little bit, really, about the Choose Love movement and the programs and are some programs, um, based for at home. Can you just go into that a little bit so people don’t feel it’s just for schools?

Scarlett: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. No. The programming, the essential life skills that we teach are for everyone. Great. And, you know, I started in schools because I knew that if the perpetrator who had, you know, gone to Sandy Hook Elementary School, by the way, whose mother had taught at the school, who came back to perpetrate the crime, I knew that if he had had access to our programming, to social and emotional learning, that the tragedy would never have happened. And so I knew that I had to get this in schools. That was my original focus. And I remember, um, being speaking at a conference for trauma, and I spoke first and then this, uh, these organizations that were focused on trauma got up and they talked about how a lot of the trauma that children are experiencing start from the home. Mhm. And uh, that was the case for our shooter as well. And I had this lightning bolt go through me and I thought I’ve made a huge mistake. I should have started with programming for the home. Um so we, we put together programming that coordinates with what we’re teaching in schools, but for the home as well. I like using myself as an example. I was 44 years old when Jesse was murdered, and I did not have these essential life skills that I’m talking about. I’m talking about knowing how to have healthy Relationships and meaningful connections. Knowing how to manage your emotions, knowing how to make responsible decisions and actually grow and be strengthened by difficulty and challenges and roadblocks that you face in life. It’s pretty basic, but you actually have to learn these skills and tools.

Scarlett: They’re easy to learn and you can practice. Life is this beautiful thing. It’s not it’s not enough to have them up here. You have to practice them. Life is this beautiful thing that it gives you opportunities to practice all the time. But actually the first program I ever did was a prenatal program for pregnant mothers. Because when you’re pregnant and you are in a stressful environment, how you manage your stress will impact your babies forming brain. So in other words, this is through the study of epigenetics. If you the cortisol that you release will cross the blood brain barrier and release cortisol when you’re stressed out. And that will actually that can actually make your baby’s brain form with a smaller prefrontal cortex and a larger kind of limbic system, because you’re telling the baby from your reaction to the environment, this is not a safe place. So when you come out, you’re not going to have to think you’re going to have to run. And so I thought, wow, that’s incredible. Because I didn’t know that as a pregnant mother. So we created that programming first. I had an early childhood development specialist who’s become a very dear friend. Um, she created an infant toddler program. And this lot was based on my own life because I was a single mother. And so I’m taking my six week old babies and I’m dropping them off at daycare. And, you know, they may be loved, but those daycare providers may not understand the importance of that time period for brain development.

Scarlett: And so this is training for those those daycare providers. And then we go into a programming for pre-K through 12th grade. It’s scaffolded all the way up. In fact, we took the opportunity during Covid to go through all of our programming. We created new programming called Choosing Love in Our Brave New World. Because I was talking about this, this kind of post Covid world as a brave new world. So this literally is is programming created to meet kids and educators where they are and give them specific skills and tools that they need right now. And then that goes right into upgraded programming that is upgraded to reflect our current environment. And that’s pre-K through 12th grade. Then we have a wonderful program for homes and then also for communities because, you know, as I would be traveling around and if we had a celebration, say, in a school district that was Choosing Love, we would have community members that would come. They’d be, uh, people from maybe the United Way, the mayor, the chief of police, the Chamber of Commerce, pediatricians. And they would say, hey, we want to choose love for one thing. And how can we help support, choose love in the schools and the homes? And so we created this wonderful community program. In fact, we just found out that Nagoya city in Japan, um, which they’ve been paying for the translation for their schools in Japan, they are becoming a choose love city, and that’s a population of 2.5 million.

Alison: So that’s great.

Scarlett: Yeah, it’s growing and expanding way beyond what we ever imagined.

Jean: Okay, Scarlett, when you say a program, is this something that you sign up for? You get a packet in the mail. Is this something? You go online, put your email in, and you get a curriculum like what’s the the program?

Scarlett: Such a great question because it is a program. But program is a little bit of a misnomer. First of all, in order to access you can go to our website Choose Love Movement.Org you can register and then you have access to everything that we have at no cost. Um, it’s no cost because my son was priced out of the market of social and emotional learning. The district had spent so much money on a program because they’re very expensive that they couldn’t afford to train the teachers… So I was told the program never got out of the box. And that’s why I thought, you know what? This would have saved my son’s life. And this can reduce and prevent so much of the suffering that we’re seeing in our world, including mental health issues, bullying, substance abuse, um, so much anxiety. So it has to be it. For me, it had to be free because every child deserves access to this. Um, these are called essential life skills. They’re what they they can take with them for the rest of their lives. I mean, this is what universities and employers are looking for, right? Um, so so everything’s free. You can access everything on our website. And for schools, it does look like programming. So you you can go on and you can download. And there are a couple different ways that you can do it. You can either download the actual lessons or you can do them Online and and you teach them and it is it’s one lesson a week. But then there are practices because it’s not enough. I mean, you may have people that are out there listening saying, you know what, I know all of this. I have all these skills and tools in my head. But you have to practice them. You have to put them into use, and you need to be able to thoughtfully respond to what happens in your life. And that’s really what we teach. And so there’s something for everyone on the website, for sure.

Alison: That’s fantastic. Um, I, I have to be honest, I have a hard time sometimes choosing loving thoughts, and, um, I, I make my best effort, but I feel like sometimes that’s a challenge. Do you ever feel that way?

Scarlett:  don’t tell anyone…But I don’t always, choose love either.  hahah

Alison: That makes me feel a little better.  Thank you.

Scarlett: You know, I mean, we’re all a work in progress, but I will say that I’ve gotten to a point that when I don’t, it doesn’t feel good. And I know what I need to do to correct.

Alison: Right. You know there’s so much, uh, in the world, so much, uh, at each other, you know, uh, that it used to be that I felt like we could have a conversation about disagreements. And now it feels that it escalates very quickly. Uh, with political views, religious views, uh, every moral views, everything. Vaccinations, masks. I mean, like, everything just becomes a point of, uh, of seeming contention. I don’t believe that’s the truth. I think it’s fear that people are just a little afraid. Um, but in those moments, like in those real one on one world moments. Do you have a couple of tips? Is it like stop, don’t respond? Is it say, I love you. Like, do you have a couple of tips to to get through those moments?

Scarlett: I wonder how that would  go across during one of those… Someone’s yelling at you….Wait, wait, I love you.

Alison: All right, hold on. Hold that thought.

Scarlett: And by the way, I completely agree with you. I believe that everything is a choice that we make. And the basis of that choice is either love or fear. And the outcomes look vastly different. So whenever you have conflict, you absolutely are dealing with fear. And, you know, I can tell you what I try to do. I try to and I’m not always successful, but, um, start with being in the present moment. Be in the present moment where life is happening. The majority of our lives are not spent in the present moment. Believe it or not, they’re spent in the past mulling over what has happened or in the future, fearing for or planning for the future. Even in a conversation even like this, we can be hearing each other but already planning our response. And so you’re not really in the present moment. You’re thinking, what am I going to say? What am I going to say? And so when you’re in that moment when you have conflict, really remind yourself, okay, I want to be in the present moment. It’s so easy to get into the present moment. Just thinking that you want to be in the present moment helps bring you there. You can really focus on what the person is saying. The only objective you have is to listen.

Scarlett: Listen with compassion and then if the other person is heated. Think about what you said, that if they’re upset, a lot of times it’s really the basis is fear. And in that way, even anger, the basis of anger is fear. You know, if you if you know about the anger iceberg when someone is angry, it’s the tip of the iceberg. That’s what we see. We see their anger, but we know that there’s always an underlying feeling to that anger. And so we may not know what that is, but know that there is. And it could be fear. It could be overwhelm. It could be anxiety. It could be so many different things. But understanding that you realize that that you know that that that calls for compassion. And when you’re mindfully aware of that, you’re in the present moment, you’re you’re feeling compassion. It definitely helps you to to not escalate the situation. And hey, everybody has something that we can learn from. Um, think about you may not agree with 90% of what they’re saying, but find what you have in common. There’s got to be at least 10% of every conversation where you can find something in common, or there’s something that you agree on, and you can take that 10% and you can build upon it.

Alison: I love that. What we have in common.  Yeah. That’s true.

Scarlett: But but we can’t find that space when both sides are reacting and coming from their amygdala, their fight or flight part in their brain, because that literally cuts off our prefrontal cortex. So we’re literally at that point we’re not thinking rationally. So really we need to come to the present moment, take a deep breath. And really listen to keep our own prefrontal cortex is online. You want to be able to thoughtfully respond to that person, because if you start ranting and railing that that other person is looking at you going, well, they’re not using their emotional intelligence. And if you want to be the one with the emotional intelligence in the conversation, you will be the one that is thoughtfully responding and really present and really listening.

Alison: Yeah, I’ve also found if I if I don’t have to make feel that I have to make a point.

Scarlett: You’re right.

Alison: Be right, be right or be happy, do you know…

Scarlett: I’ve been there.

Alison: So yeah, I know it’s it’s totally…, Sometimes I think the worst moments are when you’re really, well, they’re not getting it, i’m going to change their mind, you know.

Scarlett: I’m going to teach them something that they don’t.

Alison:  they’re going to walk away and go, what was I thinking for the past 60 years of my life? You know, it’s just….

Scarlett: Exactly

Alison: I Don’t think it’s going to happen, but I think, I think they’re like, I know that the moments that I have met somebody with love, when I have been in a place of fear, uh, have has definitely worked out better. You know, I’ve never said to myself, oh, I shouldn’t have met them with love. I’ve never said that. You know, I’ve always said, oh, that worked out better. That was a better choice.

Scarlett: You know, I call the present moment the place with the fewest regrets.

Alison: Ah. That’s beautiful.

Jean: Wow….That’s beautiful.

Scarlett: Yeah. Because, you know, even raising my kids, I always practiced being present with them in the moment because I knew, you know, this is one moment that I will never get back with them. And I know that it goes by so quickly. And then, of course, you never plan for something tragic to happen. But when Jesse was murdered at six years old, I had very few regrets because I spent all of that time at least attempting to do my best to be present with them. And that is the way to live life with the fewest regrets. Even in my book, I have, the last time I ever saw Jesse, I i walked him out by the hand to meet his father, who was picking him up at the end of the driveway, and when I turned around to give him a hug, he had written on the frost of my car, I love you, and he had drawn hearts in all my windows, and knowing that that was one of life’s moments, instead of just saying, oh, thanks. You know, giving him a hug and sending him off, I ran inside, i got my phone, I took a picture of him and the message. I took a close up of the message and never in a million years was I thinking, oh, I’m going to get a picture of my goodbye message from Jesse because it was going to be gone in 15 minutes. It would have melted. But I did. And so I have that right.

Alison: That’s so beautiful. It’s so beautiful to me.

Scarlett: It’s, it’s the power of the present moment.

Jean: And you know I love, I love so much of what you’re, what you’re saying I don’t even know where to even begin. But when you said that that thought of anger. That that’s the, the thing how the mind if we can help people take a moment. There’s a thought of anger. so you know and get in preparation for our interview today, I thought, you know, I looked at a few, uh, Ted talks and just I was just so enamored by you. And I thought, wow she’s, um, she’s so in alignment with the philosophy of Science of Mind. Have you heard of that at all? Science of mind. So change your thinking, change your life. And you’re so in alignment with A Course in Miracles. I don’t know if you know that?

Scarlett: I mean, if you think about it, we’re in alignment with a lot because we’re talking about love.

Jean: Yes..And I thought, and so it came to me, I thought, look at how it, it’s like the, the epicenter of everything is love. You know, we think we need more money to, to to heal homelessness. We need more money or we need, but we just really need to remove the blocks of fear so that we can move and be in in love. So, um, how are you wanting to see the Choose Love movement evolve now? Because you’ve you’ve come a long way…. I mean, look at you…Like wildfire.

Scarlett: Yeah.  i thought you were gonna say wild woman. haha…

Jean: Well, that too. No, I was actually, going to say that , um, cigarette commercial. You’ve come a long way baby…like that.

Scarlett: Oh, yeah.  yeah. Virginia long Slims.. Right.  I guess they did a good job, right?

Alison: That we still remember that.

Scarlett: Um, yeah. So we’ve actually done more with social and emotional learning than anyone else within the past five years. Within the past three years, it’s absolutely incredible. By connecting with courageous leaders, that was the key. And we met a courageous leader in Governor Sununu, actually in New Hampshire, and he chose us as the backbone of his statewide school safety initiative. So previously we had thought about school safety as hardening schools. And that’s, of course, how we normally think we’re reactive. We focus on the negative. Of course we’d be. If you look at the pathway to violence, it starts with a grievance and ends in an attack. Of course, we’d be focusing on that attack end. But his school safety task force was focused on proactive prevention. They were focused on, you know, dealing with the aftermath as well, but also proactive prevention. And they realized that school culture is the most important part of school safety? Because when you have a loving, connected, compassionate school culture that can reduce and proceed a grievance from even happening, or if one does and they do, it gives students, it gives educators and students the skills and tools they need to manage that grievance before it escalates into an attack.

Alison: That’s amazing. And and that answers the question of, you know, I think, uh, someone that went through, um, a murder, a loss, um, um, being a victim, their mind might go to gun control, right?  I hear what you’re saying, that it starts, like, much sooner. And there is a more expansive way to deal with this,  horrific and result and that starts many…. But I did have a question for you. So if I wanted to bring that program into a high school, would they have had to have started at kindergarten or are they self like contained?

Scarlett: They’re self-contained. You can start at any time.

Alison: Okay.

Scarlett: Any time. Go online and check it out. Um, they’re easy to teach, easy to learn. The educator can learn right alongside the student. So there’s really no need for training. Although we do have free training modules online and everyone can be choosing love together.

Alison: What’s your dream?

Scarlett: My my goal in life is to make sure that every child has access to what we know is in their best interest, and that is Social and emotional learning. It doesn’t have to be choose love, but they need these essential life skills. And choose love is a fantastic way of doing that. In fact, up until Choose Love schools and mostly guidance counselors because this a lot of times this falls on the school counselors. And so they’re taking they’re kind of pulling from different things that they like and they’re putting it together. This was the first time that everything was in one place. And then aligned with the American School Counselor Association mindsets and behaviors for student success.

Alison: That’s fantastic. That’s great. Is there anything else you wish that our our watchers, readers, listeners would know or do?

Scarlett: Well, the amazing thing about the Choose Love movement is that this has been spread by word of mouth. And it’s pretty amazing to me that still, even in the era of social media, that word of mouth is still the most powerful way of spreading this message. And so I would ask everyone, I always say everyone can be part of the solution. I would ask that everybody that this touches to please talk about this, talk about it with your friends, go online and check it out. Um, talk about it. If you’re a teacher, go back to school and create, you know, a Choose Love champion group and just start teaching it and see what you think. You can see the benefits so soon after you start and help us. Yeah, help us because this is how we’ve been able to spread to over 10,000 schools in every state and 112 countries now. And counting is by people like you talking about this. And and by the way, having the courage those leaders out there that are listening to bring it in, to do something in a different way, to step outside of your comfort zone. I mean, we’ve had traditional programming, anti-bullying. We’ve had suicide prevention, substance abuse awareness. But based on the statistics, the growing statistics of all of those things, I would think that those anti programs have not been that successful. So then step outside of what you’ve been doing and try something that’s different. Try something that is proactive and preventative. Try something that addresses the cause as you you were indicating the cause of the problem because by the way, you can’t solve the actual problem unless you’re addressing the cause. And that’s what the Choose Love movement does.

Alison: You are amazing. And I just feel like this has been such an honor. You know, I feel like you’ve lit a little fire, so thank you so much.

Jean: Thank you so much. You are amazing.

Alison: I just cry whenever I listen to this woman. Right?

Jean: Yeah. I could listen to this interview many times. She is. Talk about inspiring. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know how well it talks about the power of love, but how she, she’s just such a courageous and wonderful human being that she’s not letting the circumstances get in her way of choosing love.

Alison: That’s right. And becoming a leader and becoming someone that’s going to make a difference in her discussion of finding her life’s purpose and that this actually strengthened her faith.

Jean: Yeah.

Alison: As opposed to.

Jean: Diminishing it and and becoming a victim. And I mean, if you need a little boost right now in your life. Please take a moment and listen to this interview.

Alison: Right? Because she is so the strength that she shows us and provides is just I don’t know, it just was an honor to talk to her. Right? Like a true honor. Yeah. And I just, I just I love her. Yeah. I feel love for her. Yeah. Don’t you?

Jean: I do indeed.

Alison: You know, so we hope that that was something that gave you, gave you pause and gave you a moment of reflection. Because we know for us it was very it really stuck with us as interview for a while. Yeah. We hope you have a good day.

Jean: Have an awesome day. Yeah. Take good care.

Alison: Okay, bye.

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