Podcast Episode 47: Cheryl Farrell

JEAN : It’s great to see you.

ALISON : It’s great to see you too.

ALISON : We haven’t spoken, well on a podcast, since your We Spark thing…you were honored.

JEAN : I was honored, and that was, that was such a beautiful night. I was so surprised that my daughter Emily got to introduce me, and I thought it was going to be you.

ALISON : I know I was so happy that you thought that. And I was happy that we fooled you. And then you had a lovely video and comics. It was a really fun night.

JEAN : Fun? Yeah. It was.. It was a truly a fun, fun night across the board. It wasn’t all, um, pretentious or anything like that.

ALISON : It wasn’t a lot of speeches, they just had, they wanted to have fun. They raised some money. So I was so happy, i was so proud, Jean. I was so happy you did that.

JEAN : And you did it too.

ALISON : Well, I helped, I just helped with the video, which is…

JEAN : Which was a huge thing.

ALISON : I got to talk to your sister and your friends and everyone. Everyone came through, so it was excellent. And this is our friend today we’re interviewing.

JEAN : This is Cheryl Farrell, and I’ve known Cheryl for quite some time since our boys, our respective kids, went to Campbell Hall together. And I always thought Cheryl was just a very intelligent, super kind and generous woman. So she’s going to talk to us about storytelling.

ALISON : Which is so excellent because I love storytelling. I think, you know, just being an actor and understanding that stories are important. And she is such a good writer.

JEAN : Yeah, she truly is.

ALISON : And she she used to write a lot of articles when inside wink was a website. You know…And and so I’m so happy she’s doing this because I think right now To understand each other’s stories is so important..you know?

JEAN : And to understand what’s going on within someone’s heart and mind. Because most people just walk around and keep a lot to themselves. So it’s lovely to share what’s going on and also glean a sense of compassion or empathy.

ALISON : Yeah, exactly. So let’s listen to Cheryl and you guys are going to love her. So here she is.

Cheryl : Oh my gosh, Hi, Jean. Hi, Alison….my heart’s been pitter patter for…

ALISON : We love you, Cheryl.

Cheryl : I love you more. I, I it just seems so perfect at this time, would be now to talk about stories and how it relates to your work. So…

ALISON : And I think we were just saying that storytelling, I think right now in the climate of everything is so important because it allows us to, for that time, you know, be in someone else’s space and also, um, their shoes and just to kind of see something and see where we connect.

Cheryl : Absolutely. Our stories are what connect us and bind us. And in these highly polarizing times, it’s easy to create a story about someone based on their political affiliation, their race, their gender, their zip code, and we do that as a defense mechanism. I think it’s very primal. You know, back with the dinosaurs. Like, has that dinosaur eaten lately? Right. So I’m going to assume it’s hungry and it’s coming after me, and so that same primal instinct happens when we’re walking down the street and we see someone in a hoodie, or have a bumper sticker that says something that’s not according to our values. Um, that’s the underbelly of stories when we make them up and we don’t know each other. But I’ve always found that in a good crisis, you have a wildfire, have a flood, have some kind of reckoning. All of a sudden it’s one human being talking to another human being. Are you okay? Did you feel that? And I wonder why can’t just on a sunny, sunny Wednesday afternoon, we have that care for one for one another to find their stories. And we can still disagree on things, but we can disagree without doing harm.

JEAN : I think that’s the key…you know, we can disagree…Um, and and yet not feel like we’re separate from them. You know?

Cheryl : Not Villainize the other person.

JEAN : Villainize… right.

Cheryl : You know, not make them the enemy. Because there’s only, you know, basic needs shelter, food, compassion, love. We’re all, as human beings wanting those things… So storytelling unearths those, those needs. And that’s where we can find the connection.

ALISON : Do you, can you describe to our listeners what you do, like in terms of storytelling? Because I think what you do is so interesting, and I want everyone to kind of understand where you’re coming from.

Cheryl : Thank you for asking. I’ll start with where I’ve been and how it all came together as storytelling. I spent about 25 years in corporate America in sales communications for financial institutions, health care institutions. And then for a variety of reasons, the recession and things like that, i moved into, um, a storytelling space, a storytelling performer. So I’ll talk about some of those salons and things like that. So as a storytelling, um, performer, I found I can match the principles of storytelling and the needs of businesses and employees that need to collaborate better, have better communication. So in 2019, I created a consultancy called, Pop Up Storytelling for organizations. And it sounds like it’s telling the stories of business, but it’s telling the stories of the people who work in those businesses. And so you can find someone that’s sharing a cubicle for five years, and by accident or through facilitation, they learn that one of them was adopted and then another is a an adoptive mother. I was actually in a in a workshop once, and I posed a secret question that I can’t share here, but it’s a question I posed that generates a response.

Cheryl : And these two ladies that worked with each other answered the question, and they looked at each other. I didn’t know you were adopted. I didn’t know you were an adoptive mother. And they started chatting with each other…but they shared the same space for years? And so what I do in these corporate environments, in a safe space, is it’s not just willy nilly talking your business, but in a safe space, bring out those attributes, those experiences that others may be able to relate to. And so you’re not necessarily going to camp out at lunch with other adoptees, but you will recognize that person’s name on your email. That person, you know, you know, some of these people get hundreds of emails in a day, and they have to discern which ones they’re going to reply to. So they’ll reply to their boss, they’ll reply to the CEO, and they’ll reply to people they know, people they feel they have some kind of kinship with. And so to the extent that we can know each other’s stories without feeling exposed or violated, there is a likelihood of greater collaboration in the workplace.

ALISON : That’s amazing.

JEAN : Yeah, I never would have thought of storytelling in a business workplace as a good tool to bring coherency to my business, you know?

Cheryl : It’s a coaching method that, um, I think it’s pretty unique. I haven’t seen anyone else do it quite this way. There’s certainly industrial psychologists and therapists, but I’ve trademarked pop up storytelling, and I typically in these presentations, I’ll have my script, I’ll talk about the science of storytelling and all that. But there’s this unscripted part that never fails. I look forward to it. I can’t wait to that part, this question. And on zoom calls or in person, you’ll see people doing a double take… Me too.. That happened to me too. I can relate to that. I’ve presented in universities and law firms and, um, sororities, all types of organizations, nonprofits, for profits. Wherever there are people, there are stories.

ALISON : And do you find that it’s challenging for people to be vulnerable in those settings?

Cheryl : Absolutely.

ALISON : And how do you how do you work with that?

Cheryl : Well, there’s two layers of resistance. One is from the leaders because they have the mystique of being all…. And if you pull the, you know, the curtain behind their story, their facade, they may not want their subordinates to know that they’re human too, right? So that first line of resistance is finding leaders who are, I guess, desperate enough that they’ll try anything. I turnover there’s dysfunction among groups. Um, and if I can present it in the right way, they’ll at least give me a chance. So I get in that door. Then there’s this other door of resistance by the employees themselves, particularly women. People of color are conditioned to stay buttoned up, closed up. Don’t let anybody know the real you, because it will be exploited. But what I try to do is set up a what I call the rules of engagement safe practices, so that you can feel comfortable that what you share will be respected, will not be abused. Um, and, you know, there are nefarious characters everywhere. There are people that will take something and do something bad with it. Right. These days, the stakes are too high not to take that risk..We Take all the precautions we can to make sure that people are treating each other with compassion. But because the to not do so, is to perpetuate these divisive, um, cultures that are going on. It’s going on with our neighbors. It’s going on in our churches and our houses of faith. Um, these polarizing times are affecting everything from our personal lives to our professional lives. And it’s it’s worth taking the risk. The other the other area of pushback I get is from the introverts. And I know there’s a bunch of them listening in today.

ALISON : Yes that’s right.

Cheryl : The statistics show there are far more introverts than there are extroverts. You know, we’re in this society that rewards outgoing behavior, but most of us are quiet little folk that want long walks on the beach. They want… we want to be still and they’re in the workplace, right? So what I tell people is that I’ve taken Myers-Briggs and I have found that I’m an ambivert. I’m equally extrovert, equally introvert, so I can sing in front of 2 million people, and I can go on a cruise alone and be perfectly fine.  i’ve come to understand what gives me energy. What takes my energy away, and I regulate my activities so that I don’t get tapped out or overexposed. And so with storytelling, I say take it in doses. Do the part that appeals to your inner nature. So maybe you’re not telling your story in front of 500 people at the town hall. Maybe you’re finding a trusted friend who is willing to be vulnerable with you. Mhm. There’s also a book by Susan Cain. It was written in 2012 and I wanted to make sure I had her title correct here. Um, it’s called,”Quiet –  The Power of Introverts in a world that Can’t Stop talking”.  And she talks about how there are far more introverts, leaders of major companies, and the way they overcome their tendency to be inward is that they know they’re the master of their product. There’s no one else who can tell their product the way they do, so they have to figure out some kind of way to get up there and tell that story, because it’s that important.

ALISON : So that’s very interesting to me. And you’re right, like, I would not think— I would think, like what you said about the leaders, kind of takes me aback, because I would think the leaders would want their story to be out there. But what you say is they don’t want maybe people to think they’re human.

Cheryl : Well, or they don’t want to be the ones to tell it.  They have a story,  and I don’t want to drop any, high tech names without having done my research… But there’s, there’s a noted high tech inventor who is extremely introverted and he just found a way to get up in front of these huge investor audiences and talk about his product, and then maybe go retreat afterwards, like, you know, like when I perform or something, i’ll just say that the doors are closed. I’m out of here.

ALISON : That’s right. Close the bedroom door.

Cheryl : That’s it.  I’m having a nice conversation in a closet with me, myself and I, and we come out refreshed.  So when you talk about yourself in the plural, I guess that’s a problem. hahah– But anyway,  I figured out a way to retain my energy. You know, one of the essays I wrote for Insidewink, was about this desire to be a performer. I’d always imagined I wanted to be a on Broadway and all the glamour with that, and I’ve had touches of it a little bit, but not as a profession, but the older I get, the more I realize, I don’t know if I could be up on a stage every night doing the same thing.  For extroverts, that’s where they get their energy…I can’t wait to get on that stage,  but folks like me, is like you know, can we record it?…and y’all see…hahah

JEAN : You know Cheryl I think we change, you know, and at certain times in our lives, we need to be out there more. And then those of us that have been out there when we were younger maybe withdraw less and as we get older and vice versa.

Cheryl : I agree. No, we are shifting. Um, I know it was important to please and entertain when I was younger, so a lot of that outgoing stuff wasn’t by nature is just…I wanted to be liked. Now, I’m like, well, you know, it’s okay if I’m…. I’ll be fine, right?

JEAN : That’s right. My value does not always…. It’s not on so much of the outside anymore.

Cheryl : Exactly. One less Christmas card to send.

ALISON : That is right. That’s the beauty of getting a little older.

Cheryl : Yeah, yeah. I’m comfortable. If I don’t want to do this, I won’t do it.

ALISON : That’s right.

Cheryl : And I grieve about whether someone, you know what someone thinks of me. But all of those are parts of our story. All of our experiences as a young adult weave into our story for what we are today. And when I first meet you, you don’t have that ability to know those experiences that shaped me. There’s no sandwich board sign that says, oh, she was raised in, you know, Central or South Los Angeles, right? Or she she suffered infertility or Oh, she, you know, she had a premature birth. And I don’t necessarily want to be a poster child for everything that’s happened to a person. But those things have shaped me. And there are other people that can relate to that. Their experiences may not have the same details, but those underlying themes of courage or fear or uncertainty or hope are things that we can connect on… So a normal questionnaire– tell me about yourself?,  doesn’t bring up that type of information. But in sharing a story we do find those areas that we are more alike than unalike.

ALISON : Yeah. I thought it’s interesting that last night during the vice presidential debate. When Waltz said that his son had been, had seen or witnessed something with a gun, and and Vance was like, I did not know that. And it was a moment where it was two dads.

Cheryl : Yes. That’s it. You know, you hit the nail on the head.

JEAN : they found their common ground.

ALISON : And he looked at him and he was like, oh, I’m so, I’m so knowing, you know. And I realized, wow, these are two dads now.

Cheryl : Yes, that’s exactly the point. Perfect example.

ALISON : When you go into businesses, uh, that’s one thing, right? You’ve been hired. You’re doing it. What do you do for someone that’s, like, not in a business? How would I, who doesn’t work in a corporate world, begin to feel comfortable, more comfortable with my neighbors or with my friends. How can I open up like that?

Cheryl : Great question. Um, I think the first step is learning your own story. We think we know our story, but it’s through this guiding process that we understand, uh, in a story, there’s an arc, the the starting part, the background, the context. Next part of the arc is tension or conflict or challenge. Something happened and then there’s resolution. It’s an age old dynamic that works in literature and movies, and it can work for individuals in their storytelling. Now, the resolution doesn’t mean happily ever after that you’ll never have this problem again.  Good chance you’re going to cycle through that arc, over and over and over again, but maybe you’ll cycle through it a little quicker each time, because you’re going through something right now, and you remember, oh, it does abate. And it isn’t that, time heals all wounds, it’s just, in it’s time, you find resolution to that conflict. So there are these stories. So first is knowing your your story. Then it’s having the courage to share it because it’s great if you know your story, but it’s another thing to be willing to share it and to invite others to share theirs. So if there is a neighborhood homeowners association and there’s some conflict about, should we have this color on our roof versus that kind of, you know, there’s an opportunity for that group to find some cohesion in sharing their stories. And it may not make sense that we’re talking about paint colors. And then you’re bringing up this idea that you, you know, you had a particular situation as a kid, but given the right setup, there are ways that your neighbors, the people in your faith organization or any other group can come together and have this type of conversation. I’m also available, and therapists and others. I’m not a therapist, but others can do one on one coaching… Develop that and you then can go out and talk to others.

JEAN : How important do you feel Cheryl, um you know, listening to the stories of our ancestors.

Cheryl : Oh that just gave me chills. Yes. It is so vital because it fills that void where we’ve made up a story about ourselves. When you don’t have a connection to your past, you’ve got this arrogance of thinking you invented yourself. You came out of the womb with some hardware, some hard wiring… Some things that have shaped you. They talk about ancestral trauma, that you don’t know why you feel this way, but there’s just some stuff inside you that it’s part of your DNA.  um, you know, I was listening to one of your, uh, episodes, and, uh, Alison, you, I think, was in the introduction. You brought up this idea of how your grandmother’s skin made you feel. There was something about that, I believe.  You turned to Jean and said, have you ever felt that. And Jean was so sweet. No, I think I remember a neck exactly. But I do remember there was another story about, I guess, your grandparents or your parents. So. So there was this connection about something that happened in, you know, prior generation. Then Alison said, and it was an aside that just caught me. She says, you know, I never met my paternal grandmother because my father was left on a doorstep…..and y’all just kept talking. I’m like, ooh, did I miss that episode? …Cause there’s a story there, and people listening were wanting to know… I too feel that disconnect from my past, my my ancestors. And let’s talk about that, because it’s really not so much the circumstances for not knowing, but how does that make you feel? Yeah. And and what are you passing on to your kids? How do we fill that void for our kids, knowing where they came from? All of those are stories. So there’s there’s, you know, I say I got a million stories, but I have a lot. There’s just about everything that I’ve gone through has connection to this story arc. There was some place I, you know, I was in a certain place…. There was some kind of issue. And then this is how it resolved.

ALISON : I like that you’re using stories for forward motion. That you’re not sitting in the story sinking or, uh, either being a victim of it or being raised up by it, like that you’re looking to it for some sort of forward direction. Do you know what I mean?

Cheryl : I absolutely know what you mean. Right, it is not a pity party. not this willy nilly purging of your diary. it’s providing context for hope…  and that’s why I love your message about sharing the good. Because that’s what hope is all about, right? We’re sharing it because I can feel optimistic about today and tomorrow, even though the immediate circumstances are distressing. Yeah.

JEAN : I mean it reminds me of, of that quote you know– “share your story. But you don’t have to keep reliving it.” You know.. You’ve  had trauma or, or loss …..and speaking about loss, can you share how storytelling helps heal,   people going through significant loss?

Cheryl : Yes. You know, we grieve over any number of things. People, loved ones who’ve passed on, a pet, a lost opportunity, a feeling of abandonment and loss, uh, can be assigned to anything, right? And if you’re alone in your cocoon wallowing in your situation, you are missing the opportunity of hearing how others have gotten went through. It, came out of it. It isn’t necessarily, I talk about what it is, but I want to be clear, it isn’t necessarily, uh, if I can do it, you can do it too. That’s not what the story telling sharing is about. It’s knowing you’re not alone.  This is not unique to you, and the losses that others have felt is the same feeling burden sometimes that you’re going through, and so that healing for me means that I’m not doing this alone. Sometimes sharing my story during grief. Someone will just say I hear you. I acknowledge you. They’re not giving you advice. They’re not telling you what they would do. They’re just being present and saying I see you. And that fills the void that I’m seeing, and I’m heard and validated in this. Right. And um now, sometimes grieving can be pretty severe. So so storytelling is not a magic wand that says, oh share your story and you too will…. That’s not what this is about, right? Uh, sometimes there are therapists that include storytelling in their processes. Um, sometimes, you know, we need medication. We need certain things to get us through our grief. But storytelling is a tool, a something to consider if, um, you’re looking for a way through it.

ALISON : Um, when you said when my my father died very unexpectedly, when I had just turned 22, and everybody else I knew at that time had their dads and except my friend Sue Myers. And, um, when I spoke to Sue, I was in complete shock and feeling very victimized, like, very lonely. And Sue said just simply, I promise it’s going to get better.

Cheryl : Yes.

ALISON : And that was so powerful in that moment that my peer had experienced something similar. And exactly what you said you don’t… I did not feel so alone, and I think now I think we’re so challenged with people actually feeling lonely.

Cheryl : Yes. Oh my word. You know, the pandemic exacerbated the segmenting, that’s anyway, but thankfully, I just I don’t know if it’s human nature or just a higher power, uh, platforms like zoom, you know,  conferencing, like video conferencing was really kind of an afterthought in the business environment. If you weren’t in the office, you weren’t really important right now. Uh, this has been this has connected us in ways that we never could have imagined. And that’s that’s what gives me hope that no matter how dire our situation is, there is hope.  I have found the storytelling sessions i provide work just as well over zoom as it does in person. Now, this definitely something about feeling, touching and hugging people, but the essence of storytelling works as long as there are people on the screen and engaged. We have our little breakout groups. Sometimes the groups are pretty large and the breakout groups will come back sharing. Oh, this is what we heard and this is what we felt. I said, well, there it is. It works.

JEAN : Yeah, it’s it’s also really, um, life expanding just to be interested in someone else’s story rather than your own.

ALISON : Exactly.

JEAN : It’s like. Huh?

Cheryl : It’s like, imagine that. You know, and at a very crass level, sometimes hearing other people’s story can be a lovely distraction from your own.

JEAN : Well said. That is nothing wrong with that, right?

Cheryl : And it’s not to compare someone else’s situation to yours. But if you can be helpful to someone else, you look up, and a half a day has gone by and you haven’t thought about your situation.

JEAN : That’s huge. You know, that’s not to deny what you’re going through, but thank God we have that opportunity to shift our focus on something other.

ALISON : And you always feel better when you’re helping or listening.

Cheryl : Absolutely. Always…

Cheryl : ..And even if it isn’t intuitive for you, put up a post-it note and say I’m going to help somebody today.  I’m going to ask someone how they’re doing?

ALISON : I have very close relatives in um North Carolina right now, in Asheville. And uh, we were, they were able to text today and I was just talking to two of my nieces and I said, I’m gosh, I wish I was there. I wish I could help. And they were like, me too. And they showed me pictures. I can’t believe what it looks like, where their business, everything… And, um, and then one niece said, but I have to tell you, the interaction with everyone has been lovely and beautiful.

Cheryl : That’s a story that has come out of every hurricane, every flood, every fire.   Are you okay?  do you need some help?

ALISON : And that’s sort of the magic of being a human.

Cheryl : It’s the essence of being human. I’m going to share this story, but I’m hoping whoever is listening won’t be put out by, uh. Jean, you know, you knew I lived in Glendale, right? Beautiful tree lined neighborhood styles, Mediterranean home. And, um, I was foolish enough to think, well, if I can afford the mortgage, I can live here. Well, we were one of, you know, we were the only black people in the area, right? So, uh, but I’m.. I don’t know, I’m just kind of naive and hopeful. So about three weeks after we moved in, our neighbor had a flag hanging from his balcony, and it was a swastika flag that could only be seen, you know, in our backyard. At the time my son was about 5 or 6 years old. And, uh, being the conscientious mom, I said, if this man ever talks to you, you run for the hills. You scream and shout, don’t talk. That’s it.  So the Northridge earthquake happens three weeks later, and the first person to knock on our door was that neighbor. How are you guys doing in here? Do you need any help? Is there something I can do?  and my sweet, adorable kid pokes his head around the corner and said, “see, mom, he’s not so bad after all,”  I had to palm his little face and say, kids say the darndest things.  One of the first times I realized, I created a story for him. Why should there be a crisis? Why should there be trauma that we make those connections. But it’s human nature, it’s where we go. But I’m trying to intercept that as much as possible. I’m trying to get ahead of it, because we all, like I said, are human with this, these same needs.

ALISON : What do you think makes a good leader?

Cheryl : A person who is who dares to be vulnerable.. A person who dares to be vulnerable. Because real leaders are the ones that say, you may know more than I do on a particular area and it doesn’t diminish me. You win, I win. So they’re not ashamed to say that they don’t know everything.  Got another story, wrote a, I was a contract employee at a hospital where there was a CEO who would, um, go jogging every morning, and he was relatively new to the hospital, and he would come in with wet hair, and no one really knew exactly what was going on. This high powered guy would come in with, you know, wet hair from from, uh, jogging. And so I would write a weekly newsletter about, you know, what was going on in the executive suite, C suite. And there was one time I wrote a paragraph about, um, he jogs, he shared that he jogs because his son was maybe in his 30s at the time, died premature from a heart condition. And so he was jogging in memory of his son for good heart health. That’s not a sign of a of a typical leader that you would see.

Cheryl : And as you gave in your example before, now we don’t see, Mr. CEO. We see a dad, a dad who is paying honor to his son in the best way he can. He has policies in his hospital that support good heart health, not just because it’s good for business, but it’s, you know, it’s it’s a topic close to home. So  I can kind of sniff out a good leader. Um, and again, vulnerable doesn’t mean you’re just telling all your business and, you know, oversharing.. But it is someone you can tell that’s a human being, that’s a father, that’s an uncle, that’s a that’s an aunt. That’s a, you know, leaders are women too, that, um, that dares to be human and dares to see their employees as human. Not just widgets, not just, uh, full time equivalents. That’s a term they use in HR to talk about how many employees they have. They’re human beings who have, uh, you know, ailing parents, and they have children, and they have financial needs. They’re humans just like you. Yeah.

JEAN : I love that you put some, uh, meaning towards what vulnerability is, because I think a lot of people might think it’s just a, you know, no backbone, no boundaries, and of just going around bleeding heart. And it’s not that.. It’s not failing to embrace humanity. And humanity is is messy and it’s uncomfortable….  pockets of it are gorgeous and beautiful. And then there are sad and very trying times.

Cheryl : And we need them… That characteristic in our political leaders, in our business leaders.  yet I keep bringing up church leaders.  you know, there’s some  interesting things that go on sometimes in these houses of faith. You think oh we’re all getting along. Because people are different and if they don’t dare to be vulnerable we create these, you know these walls we put up and we don’t get at the real the real person.

JEAN : We also assume a lot. I think the human nature likes to assume- if you if no one is going to share, the mind is going to start assuming.

Cheryl : Yes, And again, I think it’s out of that primal need to know if this is friend or foe. Yeah. Fight or flight. So until I’ve had a chance to get to know you and we can’t get to know everybody intimately, I’ll just make up a story so that I can decide what my behavior is. I can decide if I’m going to return that phone call. I’m going to decide if I’m going to collaborate with that person. And, um, you know, women of color, uh, have stories written about them before they even walk in the door,  ou know, I’ve spent my entire career in, in some pretty important levels of the organization. And I early on was playing small because I didn’t want to reinforce any kind of stereotypes or stories that they would have about me. And, um, I just don’t want to hide my light under a bushel anymore. I don’t want to do that. Uh, so I’m not here to, um, you know, make anyone uncomfortable, but I will assert myself if that’s what’s needed. And hopefully people will hear the, merit of the message and not tie it with any kind of stereotypes about the person.

ALISON : Yeah, I think that’s so. I think the world is a better place because of that, Cheryl.

Cheryl : I think so. And I want us to get there, like I said before, the, you know, the sky is falling and there is hope for tomorrow. I feel I want to make sure that I underscore this. There is nothing but hope. We just have to work a little hard to show it. And I think that’s why I love your your platform, both the newsletter as well as the podcast. Because Sharing the good is there’s nothing better. Yeah. That’s the essence of storytelling. I mean, story may have some parts in it that are are uncomfortable, like I said, but we’re sharing for the purpose of good and hope.

ALISON : You know, after all these interviews that we have done, we always come back to the fact that they’re all pretty much the same. You know, it’s about compassion and kindness and respect…and  looking at someone else and saying, oh, I see you, do you know, and  I’m amazed that it could be anything from you and storytelling to people talking about how to maneuver through the medical world with cancer or giving lasagnas to, like, taking care of animals like you. Go, man, it all boils down to the same things.

Cheryl : Isn’t that exciting? To know that we are all connected… Through food, through medicine, through stories–  just being willing to talk to one another.

Cheryl : It’s being willing to talk to one another. Um, you know, one last little tidbit. When I was traveling, uh, internationally, I would always pick up a newspaper that had an English version, no matter what country I went to. There were articles about education, health, religious freedom, political freedom, you know, and and some of these were socialist countries. Some of them, it didn’t matter. But there are human beings caring about their family, caring about the environment. I said, look at this. So travel, I think, is one of the best means of education because you stop using that phrase. Those people over there–,  because they are us.

ALISON : And even traveling around this country now.

Cheryl : Yes. Oh, yes.

ALISON : Because I think people I think people on the coast tell stories about people not on the coast and vice versa.

Cheryl : Exactly. I mean, we we’ve been relegated to two colors. Are you a blue state or are you a red state?  to assign a whole state by define it by a color. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it’s everyone’s looking to find those things that fulfill them, that give them joy, that give them hope. They want the best. No one comes out thinking, I want the worst for people. They don’t. People won’t do that…. People want the best.

JEAN : Isn’t that true? That is it… And as you said before, hope– you know that vibration of hope is huge.

Cheryl : It will sustain you  over oxygen and water. If you think about people that are trapped in those mines. So yeah, they have no, you know, no nutrients or anything like that. It keeps what keeps them going is the hope that they’ll get out, and you hear about people in hospitals that you can give them all the medicine and all this, but if that inner spirit isn’t feeling like there’s a possibility I can get through this, it doesn’t matter…

JEAN : Yeah. Then you’re really in trouble.

Cheryl : Yes. You lose that spirit. So, you know, i’m grateful for chaplains and all those folk that go into hospitals and just say, you know, I see you. YSometimes they’re sharing their story.

ALISON : This beautiful Cheryl, it’s time for our two questions.

Cheryl : Okay.

ALISON : Are you ready?

Cheryl : I am ready. I hope I don’t sound overly rehearsed. I know what I’m going to say…haha

ALISON : What do you think insidwink means?

Cheryl : Inside wink happens to be a term for something I was already feeling. And some people call it intuition or, um, serendipity or, uh, luck. But there’s often in my life these moments that give a nod to- it’s going to be okay. Mhm. Right. So maybe, you know, it’s an email that comes out of nowhere or a or something flashes across the TV. You go oh look at that. And it’s inside because I’m recognizing it, I’m finding myself. Did you see that. Did you hear that. And they go, “no” I didn’t I didn’t really pick up on that. It’s my wink to this hope and optimism. I don’t think I can, I don’t I can beat hope into the ground. I just think that’s that’s what’s important. So anyway, that’s it’s an inside feeling and your terminology reinforces that.

ALISON : That’s beautiful Cheryl.

JEAN : Yeah.

Cheryl : Thank you.

ALISON : Thank you. That is really beautiful.

JEAN : It is.

ALISON : And probably the most important question we’ve ever asked.

Cheryl : Yes…

JEAN : Do you like cake, pie or ice cream?

ALISON : That’s right, that’s right.

Cheryl : Thank you. One of the most profound questions ever… And I have a story for every answer… Definitely a pie girl. Oh, because my mom, who is 93 now, was an aerospace engineer. She was one of those hidden figure types back in the day. Right.

JEAN : Wow.

Cheryl : A major, who used her skills to send rockets into space and jets, you know, into war. Um, she was a single mom for a good while, and I was maybe 5 or 6, and she would pack me up and very independent for that, you know, for that era. And we would go to her favorite restaurant and it was, um, carnations on Wilshire. I don’t know if you remember that. It was Carnat..ions on Wilshire near Crenshaw and.

JEAN : Like, white and red.

Cheryl : Yes,  they’re known for their ice cream but they had a restaurant.  And she would, and she’s educated, get this, but she’s from the South, and she would always order apple pie a la mode.  apple pie a la mode. And every time I have apple pie with a scoop of ice cream, I think of this courageous woman who made a way for herself long before there was a model for it. And so I like the pie. Not so much for its flavor and texture, but the memories that come from it. And, um, I have to watch it for cholesterol reasons now. But I can enjoy the memory, so. But thank you for asking.

ALISON : That is so beautiful.

JEAN : Very lovely.

ALISON : And your mom, wow.

JEAN : I know that’s another talk.

JEAN : Because I love that movie, Hidden Figures… And, um, kudos to your mom. And thank you to your mom for raising such a wise, beautiful woman.

ALISON : You’re just such a bright light. And we love.

Cheryl :  You are the lights. our lights connected…. Our lights are connected by two days apart. We have September birthdays. I think it’s the eighth, 10th and the 12th.

ALISON : Yep.

JEAN : Yeah, a bunch of Virgos.

Cheryl : We have a Virgo fest And I love being around those other bright lights in the solar system

ALISON : Thank you so much.

Cheryl : Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. I’m so honored. I’m among some very distinguished people you’ve interviewed, and I just hope that my little message is worthy.

ALISON : You’re right up there, Cheryl. We love you. We appreciate you. Thank you. And keep, keep doing, keep doing what you’re doing.

JEAN : Keep shining your light.

Cheryl : And you as well. Thank you so much.

ALISON : Have a beautiful day.

Cheryl : Alright. Take care. Bye bye.

JEAN : Take Two. hahah

ALISON : Take two. We recorded the best things about Cheryl and now we’re trying it again to reiterate them.

JEAN :  And it’s my pleasure, because I love talking about Cheryl and how big her heart is, how truly intelligence she is. But she does have that heart of embracing people. And so this is such a great platform for her.

ALISON : And what were you just saying after we stopped that? You’ve known her so long and…

JEAN : Yeah, for over 25 years, and certainly at the time when both of our respective children were younger and they would play together. And I just always was attracted to her vibrancy and her intelligence and always championing goodness. And and here we are, right. Coming full circle.

ALISON : And she’s very funny and very smart. And I love her business model because it’s not just like, you know, here are the rules to be in an office, you’re really playing upon people’s commonalities and opening people up. And what she said is so right– that way, you know them, you get an email from them and you’re like, oh, this is this is Bob, and he and I are similar in this way. And you begin to build real relationships then.

JEAN : Right. And and I do think businesses are understanding the importance of that. I don’t think that was so important back. Yeah. You know, like my dad was in the insurance business. It was very hierarchy. And and now as, as Cheryl spoke about leadership and vulnerability.  These are qualities that are emerging from these companies. And how great is that?

ALISON : Yeah. And I, I urge you to read Cheryl’s stories on Insidewink.com. Just, you know, go to the search bar and look up Cheryl Farrell because her stories are beautiful and very meaningful, and they’re short reads and they they give you different glimpses into her life and into things that, you know, like she talks about being one of the clue masters on jeopardy! She was, you know, and it’s such an interesting story because I didn’t even think about that watching all those years of jeopardy! You know, she’s really great. Cheryl, thank you so much. And thank you for what you’re doing.

JEAN : Yeah… You are quite the bright light… We love you.

ALISON : And thank you for and thank you for listening. And we hope you found hope you found it interesting and and keep telling your stories…right? Go tell someone right now a story.

JEAN : Beautiful.

ALISON : Have a great day.

JEAN : Bye.